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Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Aries on Jun 5, 2019 5:43 pm

Hello,

Has anyone applied for Canada Pension Plan Disability (CPP) along with your Long Term Disability? I have been approved for LTD and the insurer has told me I need to apply for CPP as well.
I am hoping I can do a modified/part time return to work (going to see what my 1st CT scan results are tomorrow before I look into this) so I am not sure if CPP will be applicable if I do although I know LTD will still be active for the hours I do not work.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Aries

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Elizabeth06 on Jun 5, 2019 6:32 pm

Hi Aries‍ 
I think it is pretty standard for the insurer to insist that you apply for CPP disability as part of approving LTD.  There is a form, several pages, that the patient completes and then a separate form for the physician to complete.  The portion for my oncologist to fill in, was dropped off at medical records and sent directly to the government.  
I did not have trouble completing the documents, but, have heard from others that they received assistance from the hospital social worker, st their cancer Center.
i was approved fairly quickly, once the physicians portion was received.
hope it goes smoothly for you, and that your scans show that treatment is working for you.

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Aries on Jun 5, 2019 7:06 pm

Elizabeth06‍ - thanks for the feedback! I hadn't heard of needing to apply for CPP before; I know I have paid into it for the past 14 years but thought that was just retirement stuff; I didn't know about a disability option.
I should be ok to complete the forms myself; I doubt they are much different from the one I did for STD and LTD. I can drop off the medical portion at my Cancer Agency administration dept. which last time, my Oncologist completed the form within a couple of days.
Thanks for the well wishes ... I will post tomorrow about my scan results - hopefully I will be able to share good news!

 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by jennifer_m on Jun 6, 2019 1:54 pm

CPP disability is different from CPP retirement, in that you can come off CPP disability if your medical condition changes - so collecting CPP disability should not impact your ability to collect your CPP retirement benefits down the road when you retire. It's typical for insurers to require people to exhaust all other available benefits before collecting through the insurer - it's just a way insurance companies try to save money. With that said, if you are able to work part time you may not meet the test for receipt CPP disability, at which point, all your benefits would just come through the LTD insurer. 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Aries on Jun 7, 2019 4:24 pm

Hi jennifer_m‍ - thanks for the information. I looked it up and I think are right, if I do go back to work part time, I think that will eliminate the CPP option. Either way no biggie but it is good to know there is that option if I was not going back to work.
 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Elizabeth06 on Jun 9, 2019 8:30 pm

Hi Mike William‍ 
welcome to Cancerconnections, and sorry you find yourself here.  
I had access to LTD benefits thru the benefits package I had purchased thru my employer.  Do you have access to a website that shows the details of your coverage? Or an HR department that could offer advice on what is available to you.
my employer offered a basic long term disability or you could purchase higher coverage.
i don’t think there is a “one size fits all “ response to your question.
the following is a link to the government of Canada website on CPP disability and includes a reference to unemployment insurance sickness benefits.
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-disability-benefit.html
i think the social worker at your cancer centre might be able to help navigate financial resources that are available.
i hope you find answers before chemo starts.  
 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Aries on Jun 9, 2019 10:10 pm

Mike William‍ - I also have LTD benefits through my employer but I know you can purchase it privately, I see the commercials all the time. Glad you have already got some coverage through Manulife but as Elizabeth06‍ suggests, maybe check with your employer if that is an option. Otherwise, you will most likely need to apply for the CPP Disability as mentioned.

Good luck with your treatment!

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Lauren55 on Jun 10, 2019 10:05 am

Mike William‍  Does your company offer short term disability as well as long  term?  If so you would use the short term up and nearing the end have the Oncologist sign off on the paperwork for the long term disability.  In my case the oncologist said I would not be eligible for the CCP disability  because it had to be a permanent disability where cancer treatment at stage 3 was not considered permanent in the eyes of CCP.  As the others have suggested talk to your HR person at work and the social workers at the cancer clinic.  They are all very helpful.  If you do not have STD or LTD through work and do not qualify for CCP disability then you mist likely will qualify for the provincial disability.  In BC it is through Social Services and Housing.

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by binman on Jun 11, 2019 1:50 pm

Hi, you can apply for the CPP benefit and also have your LTD. My husband has both because of his Stage IV Colon Cancer. The only thing I would recommend is to ask about your LTD payments and if you apply for CPP will it interfere with your LTD benefits. Unfortunately we found out the hard way with my Husbands LTD benefits because our adjudicator told us to apply for CPP which we did and everything was fine then the insurance company which is paying my husbands LTD said that they over paid his benefits because he was collecting his CPP benefits at the same time so we ended up having to pay back over $10,000 to the insurance company which was hard on limited budget. So make sure to ask about everything is my suggestion, I would hate for this to happen to anyone else especially when you are dealing with Cancer on top of financial issues.

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Aug 14, 2019 8:13 am

Amores‍, without knowing many details about your situation (age, other conditions, etc.) it would be very difficult for any of us to advise you.

There are other things that could come into play - if you have short-term disability, it could be 6 days or 6 weeks - if it’s the latter, that could give you enough time to see how you respond to your treatments before deciding to go on disability, but, it might also mean that waiting to apply for disability might leave you with an absence of income for a few weeks.

Have you talked to someone at your cancer centre who might be able to access more information about your case? Perhaps they could set things out to you in a way that you could make an informed decision. You might also go to Service Canada to see if they can guide you through the process. And, you might contact a financial advisor - perhaps even the one at your bank could help you.

I’ve read here on Cancer Connection, that sometimes CPP disability will turn you down the first time and make you go through a second application.

It’s important to think about what going onto a disability level income will do to your budget. That will be a long-term situation.
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Lianne_adminCCS on Aug 14, 2019 7:18 pm

Amores‍ 

I am sorry to hear that this part of the process has been so frustrating for you. Do you have any upcoming appointments with any healthcare provider that you can discuss the form with?
What is your current plan for treatment next steps?

Lianne

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Aug 15, 2019 8:10 am

Amores‍ You mention that you can take early retirement at 60. If this is thanks to a pension you have through your work, I would talk to the pension plan people. My pension company came around to meet with me several times in the years prior to my retirement, and they were able to tell me what taking a reduced pension would look like. That might be another option for you to look into.
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Aug 16, 2019 8:53 am

Amores‍ 

that is GREAT! I’m actually very proud of you for stepping up and advocating for yourself. You should be, too!
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Aug 16, 2019 10:31 am

I’m happy to help, Amores‍ !
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by CentralAB on Sep 5, 2019 9:21 pm

There are a few standardized qualifications one must meet to collect CPP Disability, which is different than regular CPP. From my wife's experience, the LTD does not usually ask right away for you to apply to CPP Disability; My wife did get asked by her LTD to apply, and CPP D only paid out what amounted to a portion of her LTD, so my wife does still get the corresponding, reduced LTD amount. You must be ineligable, I think, for even modified work, if you want to collect CPP-D.  Its a matter of finding out eligibility requirements, and of course, reading the fine print of your LTD  Don't sign anything or do anything until you are sure where its headed. The CPP-D would end when the recipient reaches age 65, and then the full CPP pension amount you are eligible for would kick in. You are certainly fortunate to have LTD, as I know my wife's makes it possible for me to stay home and look after her. So many do not have such things to fall back on.

Aries:
Hello,

Has anyone applied for Canada Pension Plan Disability (CPP) along with your Long Term Disability? I have been approved for LTD and the insurer has told me I need to apply for CPP as well.
I am hoping I can do a modified/part time return to work (going to see what my 1st CT scan results are tomorrow before I look into this) so I am not sure if CPP will be applicable if I do although I know LTD will still be active for the hours I do not work.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Aries

 
________________ "there is always a little Light"

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Sep 7, 2019 9:05 am

Amores‍ , I’m glad that things are finally progressing for you. You have a more definite diagnosis, and some steps toward a treatment plan.

As to the future, are you sure you are ready to “disable yourself?” The first criteria on the CPP website is “a severe and prolonged disability.” While it is good to know whether or not you qualify for disability, you might want to see what your treatment plan will be like, and how you will be able to function. My question with regard to disability would be more around what the monthly income would be, and could I get by on it? I did a quick search of what CPP disability benefits would be. The base amount is $485 a month, and the average paid out to a person is $920 per month, depending on how long they’ve been paying into CPP. Plus, I read that you might need to apply to your province for needs such as medications and “devices.” (Which I think might be things like eyeglasses, wheelchairs, etc.)

Here is a link to the CPP site about eligibility: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-disability-benefit/eligibility.html

I know you’re very worried about what is to come, and I want you to be prepared for worst case scenario, but, at the same I also want you to have some positive thoughts that you are still in charge of your future, in both the financial and health areas.

I hope you find the answers to your question, and that this information has been of some help. 
 
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by ACH2015 on Sep 7, 2019 12:09 pm

Amores‍ 

I read your post. The bottom line is that your doctor is the one that has to back up your application and show you are unable to work at any job.

Here is a quote from the link I supplied below it:

Your medical assessment

To be eligible for CPP disability benefits, you must have a severe and prolonged medical condition. What is important is how the medical condition and its treatment affect your ability to work at any job on a regular basis. Your condition must be of an indefinite nature or be likely to result in death.

CPP disability benefits are not approved on the basis of a medical diagnosis alone or on the basis of which disability or disease you have.

When determining eligibility, our medical adjudicators consider several factors together, including:

  • the nature and severity of your medical condition;
  • the impact of the medical condition and treatment on your capacity to work;
  • the prognosis;
  • personal characteristics such as age, education and work history; and
  • your work performance, productivity and how much you are earning.

Under CPP legislation, the medical adjudicators do not consider the availability of suitable employment in your region when they determine on your eligibility.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjrveOogr_kAhVQvKwKHY3mCZEQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canada.ca%2Fen%2Fservices%2Fbenefits%2Fpublicpensions%2Fcpp%2Fcpp-disability-benefit%2Fapply.html&usg=AOvVaw36Uoc4thd-S_3s0I_Wkljc

I am a formed Fed employee. I wanted to return to work after my first kick at cancer, my doctor said No, and thankfully I begrudgingly listened to him. I say thankfully because not 6 months after that conversation, I had a recurrence which lead to another year of assessments, failed immunotherapy treatment, and "Plan B" -  surgery #4. I am still dealing with the never ending side effects of both systemic and surgical interventions. I have since gotten over the "do I deserve this CPP  and Insurer Disability" second guessing, because my doctor supported my situation, and both he and psycho therapy convinced me that I am entitled to this. I felt so guilty going down this road, but I have a wife I need to look out for, I had to by back $22000.00 in unpaid pension benefits to pump up my measly 57% pension to 28.5 vs. 26 years of service - which stopped when I was diagnosed with cancer and lead me on this 3 + year never ending life change.

You need to understand that if you get your CPP Disability Pension, payments will cease when you turn 65, then you need to apply for your CPP pension. I suggest you investigate your entitlement for CPP at the link I've provided: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/corporate/contact/cpp.html

The rates for CPP Disability and regular CPP may very well differ, and will be based on your number of years contributing to the CPP fund.

There are tough decisions to be made by anyone in this situation, and unfortunately many of the decisions lay with third parties, and you may need to steel yourself and prepare for a lot of invasive questions and reliving and sharing your medical information, starting with your doctor) toward obtaining the CPP  Disability Pension.

If you are using your GP, make sure they have all the information you believe pertinent as to why you believe you can't work at any job. I have had dozens of specialists and an equal number of treatments over many years. I ensure my GP is up to date and gets the consult and test results so they are on top of my situation, and can make the required recommendations for forms etc... in an honest and timely manner.

Every case is different and needs to be assessed on not only the merits of the physician's recommendation, but the patient's abilities as well. That includes the mental and physical condition - so you truly need to be honest with your GP as to the limitations you have and will have down the road that will prevent you from working.

I burned through 7.5 months of earned sick leave, before I obtained CPP Disability after the insurer demanded I do so, and went on LTD. I pulled the plug and retired because I was always going to have to pay back the ever increasing unpaid pension benefits, so I pulled the plug at a pay back of $22000.00 to get another 2.5% on my pension.

My plan in life was to work 30 years, and leave work at age 60 with a 60% pension. Cancer got in the way, so I managed (with a pension buy back) to walk away with a 57% pension - topped up until I am 65 with the CPP disability pension.

Lots to consider - we are all unique in our needs, so do your research and understand the complete process in your situation. Being unemployable because of disability should be a lot simpler than it is, but don't add the guilt I did in having to accept you can't work anymore. We all have a life to lead, with whatever time is left. Monetary realities don't go away because we can't work. Seek your entitlements based on your realities.

The only consistency in my medical condition and abilities is the inconsistency, and I've had to accept that and all that goes along with it.

ACH2015

 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by Cynthia Mac on Sep 7, 2019 12:54 pm

Thanks for bringing your wisdom and insight to the discussion, ACH2015‍ !

Amores‍ Thank you for taking my comments in stride, and seeing that I only want you to have the best possible life you can have.

I’m probably the last person who would recommend staying in the workforce a day longer than necessary, and I know the blessings that have been put on me to have been able to go when I did, with my health intact. It was the lessons I had from others who demonstrated how fleeting retirement can be: an aunt who died of cancer at age 54 (before she got there), a relative’s fiancé who died of cancer at 50, a boss who got cancer and was gone before he’d been retired 18 months, and even my own Dad, who was diagnosed with cancer just a week after he retired. So, I understand completely why you want to go, and I’ll be cheering you on.

Hugs,
“When the root is deep, there is no reason to fear the wind.” - Japanese saying

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by ACH2015 on Sep 7, 2019 1:42 pm

Amores‍ 

Re your statement:

" think the government both employer and canada disabilty are maybe strict on disability because currently 1 in 2 ppl get cancer and that would swamp them."

Don't worry about everyone else - worry about and advocate for yourself. Your GP sounds like a real winner when they say to you "your not ill" That to me translates into "I'm not going to waste my time justifying your disability, because I don't want to do your paperwork". 

Your hematologist is your better choice toward a disability pension discussion. The aftermath may well be the time they want to discuss the paperwork, however impressing upon them what the expectations are of your employment / vs your current and future disabilities may turn the tide in your favor.

Until any person of authority is in your shoes, they should be determining your abilities and needs today and in the future during cancer (or other) treatment as coming from you - not a fill in the blanks form or textbook.

ACH2015






 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by ACH2015 on Sep 7, 2019 2:23 pm

Amores‍ 

I discovered early into my treatment the need to advocate for myself. It progressed with (as you say) apathetic (I say lazy and uneducated) people in positions of power in the workplace, insurers etc...

It really pisses me off to read posts like yours and others here that have that unnecessary burden of self doubt thrust upon them by those in power.

So, if I can pass on some encouragement and strength to help others like you advocate for themselves - my job here is done.

I've been struggling to find my way back into life lately, and have been AWOL on the site because of it. Some sparks of life are returning, but I've learned sometimes you've just got to step back and recharge your batteries.

The aftermath of the many battles I've had to fight these past years has kinda caught up to me. Burnout takes time to discover, accept and move forward from.

Pace yourself, and balance your whole life as best you can.

ACH2015





 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by ACH2015 on Oct 18, 2019 6:10 am

Hi Amores‍ 

You have mentioned many medical issues that your oncologist is not directly involved with or knows of other than mentioning in a brief medical history re your total medical history.

Given those factors, I would suggest your GP would be the one to best option to complete the forms with you. I say with you, because your presence during the consult will assist your doctor in understanding how and why your multiple medical issues has lead you to the point of seeking CPP disability. I was with my GP when he filled out the forms, and it helped to ensure both parties were on the same page. We should not have to convince our GP's or anyone else of how our medical condition has hampered our ability to work - but sometimes we need to reinforce these issues - right? Only the person dealing with the medical issues can speak to the problems they create, and compounded issues can and do reach a point of having to seek alternatives to work.

State your case to the GP, (list all of your concerns and bring them with you to the consult) explain your worsening ability to function in a work environment given the increasing level of disabilities and hopefully they will understand your need to seek this alternative.We ourselves are our best advocate and the one most able to frame our medical issues in our doctor's minds. Especially when it comes to summarizing disability forms.

We all have points of no return, and sadly many of us push ourselves to that point before seeking alternatives such as CPP disability and a forced early retirement. Personally, I think the key issue surrounding medical disability  involves the totality of the multiple cumulative effects that we suffer from. This factor can be easily missed by a busy GP, and again you are your best advocate. A very good idea to mention the cumulative medical conditions during your forms consult.

It may be necessary to provide additional pages with the forms submitted toward the totality of your health issues. I believe my submission included extra pages, and even stated to do so if required.

Also, FYI - if your GP charges you for filling out the disability forms (mine did) that cost can also be claimed under medical expenses in your tax return.

My thoughts.

ACH2015



 

Re: Canada Pension Plan Disability and Long Term Disability

Posted by WestCoastSailor on Oct 18, 2019 2:25 pm

Amores‍ 

Excellent advice as usual from ACH2015‍   to which I would add only that I found that the Cancer Center social worker was an excellent resource in getting the forms filled out. As I said to her, I have an MBA and I'm struggling to fill these forms out. Incidentally when we filled the forms out, she coordinated getting the oncologist to fill out his part. When it was all done I took them down to the Federal Service Center and submitted them. That afternoon I had a call from the arbitrator who after a short phone interview told me I was approved. Short sweet and quick. I should mention that at the time my diagnosis was not terminal.2

Angus
My story: http://journey.anguspratt.ca